Sleep :(

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Tinkerbell2
DoppleMe

My daughter is coming up to one years old and has only ever slept thou the night FIVE times.....she doesn't sleep during the day and only sleeps 3-4 hours per night, I'm not a big sleeper myself but I can't handle this anymore :,( its getting to much, I give her a nappy change and feed at night. I've have been doctors,  spoken to health workers & researched on line but nothing works/helps...I'm getting so tired I can bearly even get enough energy together to get thou the days let nights nights. I also look after my sisters 3 year old twice a week (while she works) so this drains me even more....I have seriously tried every thing possible , she suffers from bad eczema which doesn't help as she scratches all night (on meds for this & wears mitts) my parents help look after her on a saturday but I'm still the one who's up all night with her.....I feel like my brain is about to explode or my body will just shut down all together, I eat a healthy diet but this makes no differance. During the early hours Ifound myself getting very angry with her & shouting, I know it's not her fault bless her but I just snap, I have a history with depression and last thing I need is it coming back but I just don't know what to do anymore, I can't go on with no sleep and god knows how buba can happilydap without sleep 

Posted on: April 30, 2012 - 3:41am
sparklinglime
DoppleMe

I didn't have more than 2- 3 hours sleep for years - my fault for having four children! (All planned...)  My son with special needs never needed much sleep, and still doesn't.  My ex never got up during the night for them.

Probably the first time I had a break was when they started having over night contact time with their Dad, when youngest was 5.

Even now I will go to sleep and seem to wake up three hours later.

All you can do is have a snooze when your daughter does.

The joys of parenthood.

Posted on: April 30, 2012 - 8:09am
Tinkerbell2
DoppleMe

Oh so it's not going to get better any time soon NOOOOoooooooooo lol

Posted on: April 30, 2012 - 8:11am
littleredhen
DoppleMe

can you tell us a little more - what time does she go to bed? what time does she wake up? what happens when she wakes - do you get her up?

I have had success with a sleep pattern - my daughter used to wake with a kind of separation anxiety - it took two weeks of doing exactly the same every night but I cracked it even though it nearly cracked me! I knew in the long run I had to follow through even though I was really tired - I don't think there are any quick fixes but sometimes its easier to give up on something because we are so utterly exhausted - not that I am suggesting you have given up! - but I hope you know what I mean.

Perhaps if you can give us some more info, people might be able to give you some things to try.

You say you have been to the doctors and health visitors - what have they suggested and what have you tried?

Sorry for all the questions - I know you are completely exhausted

Posted on: April 30, 2012 - 8:16am
Tinkerbell2
DoppleMe

Her bed time is 9pm (she falls asleep herself at that time)  it was earlier but putting her to bed to early causes her to wake up more times. She then wakes at around midnight, has a nappy change/bottle, she's put back in her cot but she's awake the whole the until  about 4/5am (have tried rocking her back to sleep but makes no differance) then her wake up time is 6am every morning...if she's in the bedroom by herself she sleeps alot better but as I only have a one bedroom it's very hard for me to sleep on sofa in the  living room every night as its only a two seater sofa . The doctor/health worker just basically said shes just prob a baby who doesn't need alot of sleep.

Posted on: April 30, 2012 - 8:27am
sparklinglime
DoppleMe

lrh, I was never able to do that as it always disturbed the others.

Youngest was brilliant for sleeping, but third child still didn't...

Posted on: April 30, 2012 - 8:31am
littleredhen
DoppleMe

sorry got to go but will post when I get back a few things you could try - not promising any miracles tho'!

Posted on: April 30, 2012 - 8:32am
Anna
Parenting specialist
DoppleMe

Hi Tinkerbell2, it can feel so stressful when they wake in the night, your daughter must feel pretty irratable too - don't worry thought, there are tricks.

You will need to be firm consistant as lrh says and with trying to change any behaviour there will be rebellion, so the first 4 or 5 nights will be really tough. If you are prepared to stick it out, then you should see some changes.

During the night time routine wind everything down, don't make anything fun, just loving and calm.

If you bathe your daughter early evening then she can have be fun playtime, bubbles, toys, laughter etc, however if you bath her before bed, keep it a gentle quiet time, just 5 or 10 minutes to get clean and relax.

Do you read to her in bed? When you read tell her, let her know that you are going to read this book and then it is 'sleep time'.

When she wakes up around midnight, do your job of changing or feeding with as little talking, cuddling as possible, then say it is 'sleep time' and leave the room. If she cries, say it is time to go to sleep and that you are in the next room. If she keeps crying go in every 5/10 minutes, don't pick her up, just stand in the door way and gently say again, I am in the next room, its time for sleep now.

This worked when my daughter got older, when she was very small I just used to pull her into my bed and give her a bottle and we would both go back to sleep.

The bottom line is to teach our youngsters that there is no attention available after bedtime - only necessary cleaning or feeding and they soon get bored of trying!

Posted on: April 30, 2012 - 10:06am
littleredhen
DoppleMe

Couldn't have put it better myself Anna 

Here are some tips about dropping the night feed

http://www.netmums.com/baby/sleep/baby-s-first-year-sleep-solutions-for-different-st

 

Could you buy/borrow a blow up mattress and sleep in the lounge until you have the sleep pattern sorted - you obviously can't help your accommodation but I think if she does sleep better when she is on her own that is a sign that she can do it but maybe needs to be on her own until the pattern is established.

It is so crucial to stick with it once you have started though because one lapse and you are back to square one.

I got rid of the night feed first and then dealt with the waking in the night situation.

Does she never nap in the day?

9pm is very late to be going to bed if she is up and about at 6am 

Is there anyway you can put up a curtain to separate off where she sleeps so when you do get back in your own bedroom she can't see you.

Not sure if any of that will help but I hope so

 

Posted on: April 30, 2012 - 2:16pm
Tinkerbell2
DoppleMe

She never naps during the day & never has since the day she was born, she's like a Duracell battery lol...she did use to go to bed at 6.30pm but this ment she would wake up 2-3 times before midnight where as if she goes to sleep at 9pm I get a little kip before she wakes up again....thank you so much every1 I'm going to try some of these things and see how things plan out .

Posted on: April 30, 2012 - 3:12pm
littleredhen
DoppleMe

is she very active during the day?

can you give us an idea of what you do on a daily basis?

Posted on: April 30, 2012 - 3:20pm
Tinkerbell2
DoppleMe

Wake up at 6am, has breakfast, gets dressed. Turn on mickey mouse clubhouse, watch that for an hour. After that we have play time then midday we go for our daily walk (park if sunny) after that we go back home and have a sit down lunch then she plays  while I do housework and other bits. Normally after that a friend-family member comes round and she plays with their children or we go to a kids club twice a week.. Around 4.30/5 we have our dinner. Just normal stuff after that like cuddles, teaching her new stuff etc. around 7pm  I give her a top & tail wash down then I get her in her Pj's (she can only have bath once a week due to her eczema being so bad- bathed in special stuff). Around 7.30pm we have wind down time, just chilling on sofa with me listening to music or tv on quite. At 8.30pm we have story time and I put her to bed......I have tried wind down time and in cot during day but she won't sleep. .....2 days a week I do look after another child aged 3 so those days she's maily playing with the other child.....I wouldn't say she's really active, she's my first baby so I'm not sure what a really active is but she seems to play the same amount as other kids I know.

Posted on: April 30, 2012 - 3:39pm
littleredhen
DoppleMe

I don't want to sound as if I am critisizing you because I certainly am not but she may need more exercise and fresh air to make sure she is tired.

I wouldn't really expect a 1 year old to watch tv for an hour but I am sure she is probably playing etc while the tv is on

It is very hard being a parent and particularly doing it on your own but I would recommend some more things to interest her outside the home if at all possible but please don't take this as a criticism.

Personally I had to be out and about with mine when they were small or I would have gone mad so we used to be dressed and out the door by 9am - brisk walk to the shops with her in the buggy then off to a toddler group at least twice a week.

We went swimming and to a music group as well and to story time at the library 

I looked at local noticeboards for anything that was going on - when mine napped at lunchtime i too used to take a nap then off out again in the afternoon to park, shops or just for a walk.

They used to watch about half an hour tv a day and even then they wouldn't really be interested for more than about 10 mins

I found some great books to help with parenting and things like netmums are good for info too.

The reason I asked if she was very active was I was wondering if that was why she wasn't sleeping much.

If you perhaps could be more active with her and get her out and about more and stimulating those senses she may sleep better but again I hope I am helping and not leaving you thinking you are doing anything wrong!

 

Posted on: April 30, 2012 - 3:53pm
sparklinglime
DoppleMe

With my third child, he was very similar,  but ran from dawn to dusk.

I started to give him some ready brek for supper, which helped him settle.

One thing my health visitor did say was to get ready for bed in the bedroom and not go back to the living room so he knew it was bedtime. Always left him with books to look at.

Posted on: April 30, 2012 - 4:32pm
Tinkerbell2
DoppleMe

As my daughter has health problems it isn't always possible to go out much during the day as she can have very bad days. We try to go out as much as possible I.E children clubs but they only run twice a week for babies. When the tv is on she doesn't sit there watching it as she likes to play and just bounce to the music. I take her swimming but again it depends on her skin & health at the time.. It's ok I don't think your criticising, Im glad of all the help :) 

Posted on: April 30, 2012 - 4:56pm
littleangel
DoppleMe

Hi Tinkerbell, Just thought I would tell you how I combatted the sleep issue with littleangel. She was just past one year old and still waking 3 - 4 times through the night and it was seriously draining me. (I later learned her disrupted sleep pattern was down to the amount of DV in the household and her need to have me near her throughout the night) I watched a programme about old vs new vs cultural methods of parenting and one of the methods was basically around ignoring your child from the set time you want them to sleep, which in my case was 7pm to 7am. I though at first it was cruel but was desperate and tried it. I basically bathed and fed littleangel settled her in to her cot at 7pm and closed the door and didnt go back in until 7am no matter how much she cried or screamed (naturally i checked a few times that she was still breathing etc) and after exactly 3 nights she never cried between those hours again - except when she was poorly. And magically her routine of 7pm - 7am continued until she was 7 years old.

I think this method is very much like supernanny method but the advantage is that you child is too young to keep getting out of bed so you dont have the drama of putting her back to bed etc over and over again.

Posted on: April 30, 2012 - 5:43pm
Tinkerbell2
DoppleMe

I've had an issue where I have had police have turned up due to complaints of buba crying, I let police in so they were aware of her health issues and how she can get destressed. Police said ok and it was fine but now it puts me on edge when she crys for a long amount of time- silly I know 

Posted on: April 30, 2012 - 5:52pm
littleangel
DoppleMe

Really? Maybe warn your neighbours in advance that you are going to try a new method with her at night and if they hear screaming not to be alarmed? The trouble is if you cant get her sleep sorted before she walks you really will have drama thats why I did it when I did. It was hard because my little one is stubborn as hell and for the most part she was screaming I was crying too but I stuck to it and won ha! All my friends were so jealous when she started school and was in bed by 7pm on the dot every night, even when we were out the house come 7pm she would be moaning at me she wants to go home to bed lol

Posted on: April 30, 2012 - 6:00pm
littleredhen
DoppleMe

hello again - i know you said your little one had eczema - what other health problems does she have?

I just want to try and understand as much as possible - not trying to be nosy!

Posted on: April 30, 2012 - 6:16pm
Tinkerbell2
DoppleMe

Reflux (on two different meds)  due to this she is under weight. asthma, this is newly started and has 4-6 attacks per week, she is put into oxygen for most of  these due to them being so bad. It's the eczema which is the worst thou as she's on 3 different creams,applyed every 2 hours (not at night thou) and she's on a anti itch which doesn't really work as she's still itching most the night. She's under a consultant she has to see every few months to up her dosage of meds & keep check on her skin.  I'm deffo going to try all these great tips and wouldlike to say a massive thank you to every1. You are all great and I hope this is the start to a good nights sleep for us both

Posted on: April 30, 2012 - 6:52pm
littleredhen
DoppleMe

are you getting support too for all the extra stuff you have to cope with

 

Posted on: April 30, 2012 - 7:25pm
Sally W
Parenting specialist
DoppleMe

Hi Tinkerbell2 there are many tried and tested methods out there, it is just finding the one that suits you and your little one.  I can say this because with my four i had to try different things with each of them.

The one thing that i did with all mine was to bath them and then straight to bed from the bath, with varations after that for each of them, from stories to baby massage, my youngest used to like me to singing to her (i don't know why as i do't have a singing voice).

Do you think that she wakes in the night because she is itchy? if so go back to your doctor and try a different medication.

Posted on: April 30, 2012 - 7:27pm
Tinkerbell2
DoppleMe

Sadly that is the only anti itch they can give me because of how young she is. I think it's a part of why she wakes but not it all as she got eczema at 2.5/3 months old but had problems with her sleep frombirth.....littleredhen- my family are a great help & support, we are all very close and all live 20mins max from eachother  :) 

Posted on: April 30, 2012 - 7:33pm
Louise
Parenting specialist
DoppleMe

Hi Tinkerbell2

I am so glad you have had good input on this thread, it really can be soul detroying not to get sleep.

One thing I always found helpful to remember is that she does not have to sleep for 10 hours, all you are actually aiming for is for her to stay in her cot, it doesn't matter if she is awake, playing, singing to herself....as long as she clearly understands that bedtime is bedtime. Don't worry about daytime naps, just concentrate on the night-time.

I agree about warning the neighbours...tell them you are going to use a certain method to improve her sleep and there might be a few bad nights but if it works then BLISS for all concerned.

When you have finally got it sorted that she settles at, say 9 or 10pm for the night then bring the bedtime forward a quarter of an hour and once that is established, another quarter of a hour etc until you FINALLY get a bit of evening Smile

Posted on: May 1, 2012 - 11:30am
Tinkerbell2
DoppleMe

Today was the start of a new routine (invested in some baby sleep books) so far so good, still got the night time to get though and I realise it will take a week or two and prob a lot of tears - from me lol but I'm hoping this bad chapter can FINALY close and we have good nights ahead :) 

Posted on: May 2, 2012 - 7:25pm
Louise
Parenting specialist
DoppleMe

Let us know how you get on, Tinkerbell2

Posted on: May 3, 2012 - 8:19am
littleredhen
DoppleMe

how did it go last night?

Posted on: May 3, 2012 - 6:29pm
Tinkerbell2
DoppleMe

It went terrible, she woke up 4 times, I went to her every time and  I said "it's sleep

Time now" tucked her in and walked away, checking on her every 15 mins (in door way) but she cried most the night, she has had a cold and when that happens her skin flares up but I'm sticking to the routine still. I spent most the night awake on the sofa as the bedroom backs onto living room so her crying filled all rooms and I wake up at the slightest noise she makes...it's tough going but I WILL get her sleeping thou, I won't give up 

Posted on: May 3, 2012 - 8:50pm
Tinkerbell2
DoppleMe

Night two was just as bad, buba seems to be awake more since routine started than she was before . New routine, up at 7am, nap at 11am for hour & half. A 30min nap at 3.30/4pm then bed at 8pm...but then she's awake crying most the night 

Posted on: May 4, 2012 - 7:04am
Louise
Parenting specialist
DoppleMe

Bless you, Tinkerbell2 you must be so tired. Unfortunately once you have decided on this method it needs sticking to in that once you "give in" then you are back to square one and all your sleepless nights might as well have not happened.

Ok. so she had two naps yesterday. I know you said before that she really did not sleep in the daytime so it sounds as if she caught up a bit in the daytime yesterday. When she has her daytime naps where is she? Is it in the buggy when you are out walking? What I am really asking is whether she is settling in her cot in the daytime. What wakes her up from those naps?That late afternoon nap may well have been the fly in the ointment...all children go through that stage when they can't quite keep awake but you know darn well that if they go to sleep then it will give you trouble settling them at night. One good thing is when she starts to walk more then that will really tire her out.

Let us know what you think, we are here to support you. In the meantime if she drops off this morning, get your head down, please, and try and doze off yourself

Posted on: May 4, 2012 - 7:30am
littleredhen
DoppleMe

Stick with it Tinkerbell2 - I have also been through this and I know how it feels but it really is worth following through - I agree with Louise that maybe the afternoon nap is not necessary depending on whether she is in the buggy which can't be helped or you are putting her in her cot.  If she is now napping in the day then maybe she was so overtired that made her restless at night but I would definitely try and skip the afternoon nap if you can.  I don't know if you let her play in her cot for a while before getting her up but that is why I mentioned having a curtain in the room when you go back into the same room - I used to leave mine playing in their cots for about half an hour after they woke up just so they got used to being on their own and sometimes they would fall back asleep, mostly they would play away happily - chatting away to themselves.  Definitely get a nap during the day - it will help you manage the evenings - we are here for you!

Posted on: May 4, 2012 - 7:51am
littleredhen
DoppleMe

Oh by the way when mine dropped that afternoon nap and struggled to stay awake late afternoon I used to give them an early bath - then they had tea and then story etc went to bed at 6.30pm or 7pm.

The early bath just helped them keep going for a bit longer.

 

Posted on: May 4, 2012 - 7:54am
Louise
Parenting specialist
DoppleMe

I agree with LRH about bringing the bedtime routine forward if you need to, but I know that you can't give buba a bath every night because of her eczema. So instead you could do something lively that will make her laugh, to spin things out a bit more, before the bedtime routine and make sure she stays awake.

You know what makes her laugh better than me, but I used to do action songs with my boys, things they could join in on, like The wheels on the bus, Row the Boat  or This is the way the ladies ride, where they were on my knee and I was doing the movements with them. Small children also love it when their toy is "naughty" and you tell the toy off. We had a toy monkey and he would do things like try to pinch a biscuit or leave all his clothes in the middle of the floor. Use the same words to tell off the toy each time...I used to say "Monkey! What have you done now? OH......Monkkkkkkkkkkkey" and the boys would laugh like hyenas. It can feel as if you are a terrible actor in a pantomime but if it gets results....

Posted on: May 4, 2012 - 8:13am
Tinkerbell2
DoppleMe

I always put her for her naps in the cot and if she doesn't want to drop off to sleep I still leave her in there for the full nap time so she gets used to - "its nap time" - going  to still stick to the routine but as I said even thou she's not a great sleeper it seems like she slept more before the routine started :/ I'm not looking forward to tomorrow as its her fathers forthnighy visit. One of her nap times will be bang in middle of visit which he will hate as he only sees her for afew hours but I will just have to explain there is a new routine. 

Posted on: May 4, 2012 - 8:23am
Tinkerbell2
DoppleMe

That's a good idea Louise :) A likes bubbles , i will also try the "naughty bear" she will love that :) 

Posted on: May 4, 2012 - 8:27am
Tinkerbell2
DoppleMe

Ok so A has just fallen asleep, prob coz she has been up all night- do I still give her the 11am nap or skip it? 

Posted on: May 4, 2012 - 8:49am
Sally W
Parenting specialist
DoppleMe

Hi Tinkerbell2 if she has just gone to sleep i would imagine that she won't want her nap at 11, i remember when mine were little that any naps during the day were pretty much dependant on when they wanted to sleep, only not to late in the day or that messed up the bedtime routine.

Let us know how things are progressing.

Posted on: May 4, 2012 - 12:45pm
littleredhen
DoppleMe

I would say that you should let her sleep when she fell asleep at 9  and then when she wakes up keep her busy until bedtime if you can - mine would have two naps a day until they were 1 then a lunchtime nap until they were 2 and it used to be rougly the same time but if they had been awake in the night they would definitely fall asleep in the early morning!

I think that is why I am saying to let her play in her cot as sometimes if there is nothing going on they can fall back to sleep in the morning if they have had a restless night.

There is no quick fix though but I am sure she will get into a routine - I knew when mine were ready to give up naps as I would put them in their cots at say 1230pm after lunch and they would just babble away - half an hour later still no sleep so I used to get them up - did that for about a week and then decided it was time to stop the daytime nap.

Perhaps tomorrow you could play it by ear unless you know she is really tired and needs a nap - if she does could you all go out with her in the buggy and she could have maybe half an hour?

Thinking of you and hoping it goes ok

Posted on: May 4, 2012 - 1:36pm
Anna
Parenting specialist
DoppleMe

Hi Tinkerbell2, yesterday you sounded so resolute that you are going to stick to this routine, well done you.

I bet right now you are feeling washed out and exhausted, but STICK WITH IT, you are doing a grand job. We have all been there and you can get through it too. Deep breathes, be kind to yourself and think of a reward for you and buba for when you have this under control Smile

Looking forward to how night 3 and 4 go.

Posted on: May 4, 2012 - 4:47pm
Louise
Parenting specialist
DoppleMe

I echo that, one form of torture is sleep deprivation and all parents have to encounter this in some degree BUT wow you have done really well, how did last night go?

Posted on: May 5, 2012 - 8:35am
Tinkerbell2
DoppleMe

She woke up at 11pm. 2am and 4am, each for about an hour at a time, not too bad compared to the last few nights, hopefully we are slowly getting there. Fingers crossed it goes ok with her fathers visit 2day and he don't kick up a fuss about her being put to sleep while he is here 

Posted on: May 5, 2012 - 9:30am
Louise
Parenting specialist
DoppleMe

Yes, although you could tell him you are undertaking a sleeping plan that had been recommended by a parenting specialist....heh heh.

I am so pleased to hear that you had a better night. Hope soooooooo much that you will see improvements from here on. Don't panic if you suddenly have a terrible night that seems back to square one, just stick with the plan, consistency is the key Smile

Posted on: May 5, 2012 - 10:16am
Tinkerbell2
DoppleMe

Thank you all SO much, although it's nice to have family and friends it's so nice to get advice ftom outsiders and I find sometimes fait just agree with me. It's nice knowing I have a little family on this site who have experienced the same and give great advice :) 

Posted on: May 5, 2012 - 10:42am
Louise
Parenting specialist
DoppleMe

That's a good way of looking at it, another family.I always think of it as sitting round a huge kitchen table together, sharing our joys and worries Smile

Posted on: May 5, 2012 - 3:17pm
Tinkerbell2
DoppleMe

I hate this routine, A is awake more than ever & crys more at night than normal, , is this ment to happen?  

Posted on: May 6, 2012 - 6:15am
littleredhen
DoppleMe

hi Tinkerbell2 - I think it depends really - do you think she is awake more often or is it just that you are focusing on her sleep so you are more aware of how often she is awake?

What happened last night

Posted on: May 6, 2012 - 6:34am
Louise
Parenting specialist
DoppleMe

Poor you, ,my heart goes out to you, you must be so tired and frustrated. All I can say now is it is up to you. You have been doing this for four nights now, is that right? If you are going to stick to this method then it needs a full week (aaagh I hear you say). Could you bear to try it just one more night before you make a decision about it?

Posted on: May 6, 2012 - 6:39am
littleredhen
DoppleMe

another thought - maybe you could keep a diary of her sleep pattern and when she wakes - did she have her naps yesterday

I think you said at the beginning she wasn't sleeping during the day but now she is napping so it is a very different routine for her 

Sending you a hug cos I know how hard it is 

Posted on: May 6, 2012 - 6:41am
Tinkerbell2
DoppleMe

She had naps yesterday (2 naps) last night she woke up from 11pm (bed at 8) to 3am, I left her in her cot during this time, only took her out once to change her nappy, then she woke again at 4.30am and hasn't slept again since (nap time due at 11am) before the routine started she hardly every cried the whole night (she would cry but not constant like now) I'm still going to stick to the routine as I've got 3 more nights to go until I've been doing it a week bit if it isn't making anydifference how much longer to a carry on for and what should I try next? Do u think maybe A is just one of these babies who doesn't need a lot of sleep or won't settle until she's older? 

Posted on: May 6, 2012 - 9:37am
hazeleyes
DoppleMe

Hi Tinkerbell2. I'm sorry I don't have any advice. I was one of the lucky ones, where C has always been a good sleeper, even now and he's 9! Bet you could kick me right now Smile

I think you're doing brilliantly though, and I would suggest sticking to this new routine for now, even though you're not seeing any light at the end of the tunnel, you will. Not sure if anyone has said this, but do you leave a little light on, maybe in the hall, so the bedroom isn't completely dark for her?

Posted on: May 6, 2012 - 2:44pm
Tinkerbell2
DoppleMe

Yeah I had a night light on by her cot x

Posted on: May 6, 2012 - 4:27pm